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KEY HIGHLIGHTS

🌅 Early games didn’t have aesthetics

👀 When visual experiences became important

🎎 How JRPGs spearheaded the fashion movement in gaming

💍 Digital accessories can cost wildly different amounts

👟 The drivers for the rise of in-app fashion purchases

🤑 The pandemic played its part in driving up mobile gaming spend

💎 Player motivations for buying expensive digital accessories

👯 How games have evolved to be social platforms

💃 Digital experiences are making up for the lack of real-life ones

🎁 The factors that make in-app items more or less valuable

🔫 Successful collaborative games are mostly violent

🛍️ How e-commerce can see a significant shift if games are made as social platforms

😳 Why ads would find a more engaged audience in games

🤩 How Covet Fashion engages its community on YouTube

🏗️ It is possible to build games with the community

💅 The factors a fashion company should consider when venturing into games

✨ How designers in fashion companies and gaming companies can create magic

🔮 Fashion brands should find their niche

🧚 How games can be less intrusive platforms than social networks for brands

KEY QUOTES

When people’s lives shifted online

Their digital personas go out more than their physical selves. I don’t recall any moment of history that this happened. 

The value of an asset is conceptual

When I talk with my friends and they’re always: “I wouldn’t buy a digital dress or skin for even a couple of hundred of dollars!” Then I’m telling them: “But you bought some Nikes, Reeboks or Pumas, or other famous brands for a couple of hundred of dollars.” “Yeah, but they’re physical!” And I say: “Okay but the production cost of this shoe is $5, $10 or $20, right?”

The unexplored potential of gaming spaces

I think in the times where many people are dissatisfied with social media, Facebook, Twitter, etc, they’re looking for new places to meet people. And I think gaming as a social service, gaming as social platforms is the way to go there. 

How gaming incorporates fashion

I just think whether it’s a game that should be a social platform in its core design and from this core design that we talk over, ask more questions and add more notes. So for example, are we going to do all around fashion, like street style, elegant, glamour or boho? What’s our core audience? Are there any niches that have not been covered? 

There is for example this game, I think it’s called Fashion Police. It looks like Quake, Doom or Duke Nukem. Instead of shooting people, you shoot something and it changes the dress of the person.

There was no online gaming in the beginning.

It’s funny because when I talk with kids that are around 8, I show them for example, Super Nintendo games. They are like: “You said you couldn’t pay online?!” I think the younger generation doesn’t see the possibility of not playing online, in spite of the fact that, for example, on PlayStation, you have the trophy system.

FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW

Shamanth: I am very excited to welcome Joanna Frota Kurkowska to the Mobile User Acquisition Show. Joanna, welcome to the show.

Joanna: Good morning—or good afternoon!

Shamanth: Yeah, or good night; wherever people are listening in to this podcast from. 

Joanna: The time zones are crazy. So you know.

Shamanth: Yeah. I’m very excited to have you, because you certainly have a very unique perspective on an aspect of gaming, around aesthetics, that I don’t think is necessarily front and centre, yet is so important and so critical. And I noticed and realised that, after having spoken to you and after having read what you’ve written, so I’m very thrilled to have you, Joanna. 

A good place to start exploring today’s theme could be to start by talking about some of the early games, like Pong, Pacman, Space Invaders—these were not any sort of visual or aesthetic experiences. So, at what point in the evolution of gaming, did aesthetics or the visual experience start to become important enough that we are actually talking about the interplay between gaming and fashion today?

Joanna: The early games, like you mentioned Frogger or Pong; they had very simple graphics, and none of that went with fashion. The only clothes that I can remember from those days is Mario the plumber’s uniform. That is the only piece of fashion I can remember. It was a couple of pixels, and nothing else. 

The moment that it struck me that fashion and gaming go along together, and well together, are in the 90s, when I started playing Japanese RPG games. In the 90s, they were very fashion-oriented, at least for me. I played loads of European or American games. They were complex or semi complex, but they didn’t have this fashion aspect. 

When you look at the JRPG industry, there is always this fashion aspect, especially for me, and especially when you look at Final Fantasy 7. They changed the character designer from Yoshitaka Amano to Tetsuya Nomura, who was very fashion-oriented; if you read interviews with him, he’s into fashion. He loves his belts, jackets, etc. And if you look at the designs—because until this day, Amano does some illustrations for Final Fantasy series, and his illustrations are more fantasy, sci-fi oriented. And Nomura always goes more into fashion. This is an obvious aspect. Even one of his other games—I think it was The World Ends With You for the DS, it has fashion literally, in its DNA. 

So I take the 90s and JRPGs as the moment for me when I discovered this is cool. This is a special moment. Later, the second one—when it comes out of the Japanese markets gaming—are the Sims. You had to buy clothes for your Sim, you had to play a designer role, etc. So the Sims, for me, was the first title out of Japan—out of the market, different from the market—that had this fashion aspect. The first Sims were released in 2000, or somewhere around, and Final Fantasy 7 was 97. So definitely, these are three years which were more fashion-oriented. It’s still not the thing that it is today, but they were the first games that were definitely in the zone of fashion.

Shamanth: Certainly, I imagine that this is also when games, in general, started to become more visual, and it certainly makes sense that accessories, like clothing and style, started to become much more prominent, and was much more clearly visible as elements of the games themselves. Although I would guess at this point of time, in the 90s or the early 2000s, we still weren’t at a stage where digital fashion accessories were a thing, which is the case today. So the digital accessories, you can buy them as $2 IAP, but you can also buy, let’s just say a Counter Strike skin that sold for $60,000 as a collectible item. 

So help me understand, what were some of the key transition points that took us from early RPGs, early Japanese games—these look really stylish, these look really chic—to we will pay for maybe a $2 IAP or a $60,000 Counter Strike skin.

Joanna: The obvious answer to this question is the development of technology, and gaming in general. If you saw early gaming, it was just player versus player games. There wasn’t a large market for gadgets, etc. And there was no internet, so how could you buy some things if you couldn’t get to an e-store or something like that? And I think the main answer, the clue to this question is the rise of the internet, the development of ecommerce, and transferring some buying habits from our traditional lives to our gaming lives. 

Of course, we can add the pandemic from last year, but if you look at the data—there is some data on that—for example, spending in mobile games just rose tremendously. The same for the DLC content etc. People are closed up in their homes, and they cannot go to a store. They cannot meet with people, so they don’t need new clothes, but they’re playing loads of Animal Crossing. They’re playing lots of Fortnite; they’re playing Call of Duty, as you said. They’re playing Roblox. So

their digital personas go out more than their physical selves. I don’t recall any moment of history that this happened. 

So I think the rise of internet and mobile communication, plus of course the pandemic during the last year. If you look at the data, the global customer spending solely for mobile rose 28% comparing 2019 to 2020. The rise of spending in mobile games is almost 30%, but it’s also for other things, like coins with which you can buy things inside the game. Roblox has a system where you buy a Robux and then you can spend it on digital accessories etc. So this will be my answer to your question.

Shamanth: Yeah, so the internet’s happened and certainly digital transactions are easier.

Joanna: Of course, the development of payments. For example, in Poland, in the 90s or early 2000s when you wanted to order something, you could even have the money but there was a problem with the payments; you could use cheques etc. 

I remember the moment when PayPal came in, and it was like a whole new world opening. Currently, with other systems like digital payments or even cryptocurrencies, shopping is just going and choosing the way you want to pay. It’s shocking how it’s changed—in a good way!

Shamanth: Yeah, I grew up in india where—to a certain extent we still have payment problems, but it’s changed dramatically since PayPal and digital payments. We talked about how people are more open and willing to buy in-game fashion accessories. What are the key motivations behind these purchases; why are people buying this? I mean, I wouldn’t buy a $60,000 Counter Strike skin. 

Joanna: Yet! 

Shamanth: Yet, yeah, I may have spoken too soon, but what are some of the key motivations and why do people buy these things?

Joanna: This is also interesting, because

—which I hope will rise so the payments that go to those workers. 

And they are: “Yeah, but it is physical, etc.” But, again, if you’re a sneaker collector—which many of my friends are—and you have thousands of shoes—or hundreds or tens,  doesn’t matter. You buy the emotion. You cannot, you won’t, wear them. If you see MTV Cribs or those programmes where people just go through their flats or houses, and you can see those large storages with their shoes? They won’t wear them. You’re buying an emotion: the whole feeling of buying it and owning it. This also applies to buying NFTs. NFT, or non-fungible tokens, is the hot thing right now in cryptocurrency. So this is solely emotion. 

The other reason is the purpose of it. If we’re talking about digital fashion, solely in gaming. For example, some of the skins or guns or swords give you better stats. Aha, so if you buy it, you get better in your game. That used to be the main motivation for buying things 10 years ago. There was this online game called Tibia, or even the famous World of Warcraft. People were just swapping things, weapons, armors, etc, and this was for the usability of it. You could smash your enemies; you’ll get better at the game. 

On the other hand, for example, you have games like Fortnite, where those skins do not add anything to your statistics. They just are there. So one may say it’s just being vain, because you want to be different; it’s just clothing, etc. 

On the other hand, it’s a meeting place for you and your friends, and you always want to dress up for the occasion. For example, when I talk with my friends’ kids, the parents are always complaining: “How is it that my kid spends $100 on Fornite skins?” I’m talking with them: “Why did you do it?” And he said, that for him, it’s like a way to get dressed for going out, because we’re in lockdown currently, and he doesn’t have a place to go. And he likes cool fashion. 

It is also like card collectibles for them. He collected all of it; he’s got this collector’s gene or something—he likes it! This may also be that, right? One person can collect stamps; the other person can collect Fortnite skins. Look also at the data when it comes to collecting, when it comes to spending on DLCs. It’s from Statista 2021, buying currency is the first one. So people pay most for the currencies in gaming—which again, as I told you before, they spend the in-game currency also for clothes, etc. And the second biggest thing they’re spending their money on the DLCs is skin, wardrobe and cosmetic upgrades. So it doesn’t have anything in common with being better in a game. It’s just like “I’m cool, I feel better.” And this is interesting that essential items, like travel vessels, vehicles, etc. are the last ones. Yeah, the weapons are the third one, so they divided it a little bit differently. Weapons are the third one, but other essentials are the last after clothing and currency. This is crazy. 

Shamanth: Wow, yeah. So the status or how you come across to other players matters so much. I think the example you gave of sneaker collectors is a great one, because like you said, nobody wears those sneakers. It is as much a virtual collectible. 

Joanna: Nobody takes them out of the box, sometimes, because once you take it out of the box, I think the price drops. I’m not a sneakerhead myself, but I know that it’s like that with a game: with games are in their foils and the shoes are also in the box, with the special things around it. When you take it out, I think it’s like 20% or even 40% of a price drop or something. Crazy, crazy. 

Shamanth: It’s insane. 

Joanna: And another thing that is important with sneakers is that they take up a lot of place in your home. Literally, they own because if you have a lot of sneakers, because you have a sneaker room, of course. In gaming, it’s very easy because you have only the digital space. That’s also an interesting aspect. 

Shamanth: Yeah. So you talked about how weapons are number one consumable, essentials are the last, clothing is second generally in games. So even within clothing, there’s a wide spectrum: I gave the example of a Counter Strike skin. And I know there are things that are sold for hundreds of 1000s. So what are some other drivers that can make an in-game article of clothing more valuable or less valuable?

Joanna: My take on this is just one word, it’s rarity. There’s this great example from Fortnite. I think the skin that is currently the first—or in the top five—of the most expensive Fornite skins; it’s nothing out of the ordinary. The design is bare, but it was just available during the first season. And because it was nothing special, almost nobody bought it. And now the quantity of it is scarce. Thus, rarity would be for me, point one. 

Second, if we’re looking for examples—I’m not a Call of Duty player, so I might be mistaken on that—but maybe the usage in the game. I think it might be an improvement for your character or for your game. But I think the rarity is more crucial, not only because of its current state—because it used to be popular now with scarce—but for the future, I think the more games that are released, the more we’ll see games being released as a social platform. For me, Fortnite is a social platform. 

Surprisingly, for me when people talk about the metaverse, nobody talks about Call of Duty as a social platform, or even a thing that can be a part of the metaverse. And I think loads of people just play Call of Duty because it’s a social platform and meetup space. So again, as more games like this will be released, more pieces to collect or improve your games will be available there, and more rare items will also be there. And things that can improve your game. 

Shamanth: Interesting. So it sounds like it’s how rare the item is that is the key determinant. And something else that’s interesting that you touched upon is: it’s not just a game. It’s a way for players to hang out and chill. Earlier on in this conversation, you said: “Look, we need real life events that happen virtually now like real life.” Certainly this is true of simulations like Roblox or Sims, and things like that. But as you said, even with Call of Duty people just go hang out and chill.

Joanna: And shoot people in it!

Shamanth: They shoot people! Yeah, I know. Good point!

Joanna: A great way to chill; a couple of dudes killing people! 

Shamanth: Yeah. It’s funny, I was talking to somebody and they were trying to say: “Look, how do we make this game more cooperative and collaborative?” And this is not a shooting game. I was sitting in on this conversation, but one of the persons was like: “The only collaborative games that have succeeded have been the ones where you shoot people. There are no non-violent, collaborative games.”

Joanna: I have to quarrel with that because there’s this one great game. You’re not killing anybody, and you’re very collaborative. It’s called Overcooked. Have you played it?

Shamanth: I have not. I have to check it out. Okay.

Joanna: It’s a cooking game. I think for max 4 players.

Shamanth: Oh, interesting. I will have to check that out.

Joanna: You can get lit on fire. You can catch a fire in the kitchen. And you’re dead.

Shamanth: There’s some violence; not as much, okay.

Joanna: It’s inevitable in the kitchen. But this is also a way—I don’t remember whether it has multiplayer online—but it’s a good collaborative game, when you’re at your home with friends. Apparently, which you cannot do right now. The meeting space is crucial. Digital assets and meeting places in gaming are inseparable. 

When I was looking at loads of mobile game talks, because I’m not a fan of mobile games myself. I don’t play them. But I’m very interested in trends, data, and the industry as a whole, because it’s very interesting for me as a researcher. What interests me is that there’s this focus on data, like user acquisition, etc, and very few titles are aiming to be social platforms. And

I think in the times where many people are dissatisfied with social media, Facebook, Twitter, etc, they’re looking for new places to meet people. And I think gaming as a social service, gaming as social platforms is the way to go there. 

And with gaming as a social platform, the whole of ecommerce will also move there. Okay, maybe not the whole of ecommerce, but many companies, other kinds of advertisements, etc, will move there. So I think that apart from the things that the mobile industry tries to do—like all the data, retention—there should be this thinking about how to make our game a social platform. Not only does the user want to return once a week or five minutes a day, but wants to engage in it. 

I really like the fact, for example—again, it’s Fortnite—did you know that, in Fortnite, there’s an option when you’re doing the Battle Royale thing with your friends, and for example, you’re driving, you cannot participate. You can push the voice mode, so you can only hear what’s going on and participate in the conversation. Hence, you’re participating with your voice, not to with your gun, and you’re not thrown out of the action. 

So this for me is also gaming as a social platform and using your voice, and audio as a social platform. We’ve seen it with Clubhouse. This is really a big opportunity nowadays. I know Facebook and other social media do lots of good things for the mobile industry. But maybe it’s time to look beyond just the classical mobile gaming thinking, and think more about—let’s call it ‘social platforming’. 

One of the games that I wrote about in my presentation is Covet Fashion. What surprised me was that the game was very cool, but when I entered their YouTube, it was like an entertainment channel. It was mostly videos from their meetups, which struck me because there was little of gaming, like gaming footage. And it was mostly meetup media. Of course, it was before the pandemic, so they had meetings in real life. I don’t have slightest clue how they do it now, but I think forums like Reddit are their meeting space; or maybe Discord or something like that. But there, I think they were aiming for the players who don’t consider themselves as players, but people who want to be bonded by their common hobby, which is fashion. And for me, I think that’s a very interesting thing to look up to in the future. 

People are only thinking about esports in terms of big competitions, people meeting up and stuff, but there’s a trend that people do not see mobile games as social platforms. I think many games have potential to do this, even if it is a match 3 format—I am a total match 3 nerd. It’s evolving with Project Makeover, etc. Why not take it more in that way with a more social aspect? And with that, and, getting back to the main topic of this call, the whole ecommerce is connected with digital clothes. So you can buy not only clothes that are in-game— for example, I would love to buy a jacket from Final Fantasy—but you can also buy real clothing by other brands that are in the game. 

So I think that’s it. I really think that digital fashion digital assets are not to be looked at as though they are just digital fashion and nothing else. You’ve got ecommerce, you’ve got the social aspects, you’ve got the community aspect. So, for example, when you’ve got a company that’s designing a game, like a fashion-oriented game—I’m just blueprinting right now—they have to sit down and think about it. What’s the aim of creating this game? How will the development go? Maybe do a roadmap. 

This is what I really love when it comes to cryptocurrency projects. A good cryptocurrency project has a roadmap for a half a year, or a year, or even a couple of years—if they’re very ambitious. And for example, if I read it, I know what’s going to happen. Then, time passes, I see what they accomplished. And it makes me more involved with digital assets. I think the same would apply to gaming. 

Also I’m very interested in titles that could be developed together with the community, which is very hard, because it’s usually the way that you develop a title and you build a community around it. How to—in mobile gaming—build games, and at the same time, start building a community. I know niche titles on Twitter do it. But it’s totally niche gaming. On computers, when it comes to PC gaming and Steam, there’s this great example of Darkest Dungeon, which was in early access on Steam. And the creators were tweaking the games together with their community—which wasn’t always the best. There’s this documentary on game development. Everyone did good but the community was very strict about some things. And it led to some quarrels. 

But I’m very interested in how it would go in mobile gaming. How teams who would take this obstacle or challenge head on, but I leave it as an open question. And I hope someday, somebody will send me a link to such a project.

Shamanth: Yeah, certainly. Let’s just say there’s a gaming company, they’re not very fashion-intentional at this point in the game. Maybe they are a match 3 game, maybe they even have characters, but they’re like now we want to ensure there are fashion forward collectibles in our game going forward, we want to have that as part of our strategy. What are some of the questions they should be asking? What are some of the key decisions that they should be considering making?

Joanna: I’m the kind of person that would ask them questions.

Shamanth: What would you ask them?

Joanna: Yeah, I think everybody knows some answers—if we’re talking about a good team that’s done some work together and they know each other—and I’ll just sit down with them or they sit down with each other, and talk about what’s the purpose of this game. Are we doing more niche or more indie titles, or we’re going to do what Project Makeover did. When they released the game, they already had a partnership page: “If you’re a brand, contact us.”

So

I just think whether it’s a game that should be a social platform in its core design and from this core design that we talk over, ask more questions and add more notes. So for example, are we going to do all around fashion, like street style, elegant, glamour or boho? What’s our core audience? Are there any niches that have not been covered? 

Because when we’re talking about gaming fashion, there are niches.

There is for example this game, I think it’s called Fashion Police. It looks like Quake, Doom or Duke Nukem. Instead of shooting people, you shoot something and it changes the dress of the person.

I think it’s early access on Steam. I don’t know if I have the name correct, but I found it really funny and interesting, but it’s so niche right? But I think it has the potential for a professional partnership with a fashion brand. I totally see Balenciaga or Gucci doing something like that with the people who made the game, like: *bang* “You’re in Gucci swag!” It would be totally awesome. 

So I think I would decide whether we’re creating an art project, a niche project, an indie game or a mobile game. Let’s be honest: it will bring our company money and it will be also a stable source of revenue for us. So maybe we can work on this game constantly, do some addons, do some partnerships. So I would go this way.

Shamanth: Yeah certainly, like you said, I think asking those questions to clarify what they want and where they want to be—that’s the most important thing. If you were to look at this from the perspective of a fashion brand—and you alluded to some of those just now—let’s just say Gucci and somebody there is like: “Oh we want to be a part of gaming.” Because, maybe they heard this podcast, maybe they’re like we want to be a part of gaming. What are some of the questions they should ask themselves or what are some of the questions you would ask them to make sure they’re approaching this right?

Joanna: I think Gucci is easy, and for Balenciaga too, because they already participate in the market. And if you’re participating in the market, you’re familiar with the market one or another way. I think these are the companies that know how to talk with gaming companies, know gaming, and what’s most important, they get gaming. So they have this touch that’s very good. But I think the main problem would be if I’m in the fashion company that’s never done a game, knows nothing, just: “I’ve seen that you can do some stuff in Animal Crossing. Let’s do that. Let’s jump on the bandwagon.” 

I’m just giving the Animal Crossing example, because many brands showed up there, because it’s free and you can start your islands. Other people just started their island and did nothing else, but many brands did it very smartly and they partnered with an influencer from the inside. This is not the gaming aspect, but this is like they’re participating in gaming as a partner. I think I would start by partnering with somebody, testing what’s the return of investment from there. Just maybe not Animal Crossing; maybe another game. 

And then looking at what’s the sentiment of the comments on the Internet. What’s happening with our participation in the game? You can get hard data for it, without a problem, so look at the data and look at how you feel personally. Because, even if it is not a huge success—it may be a niche thing for you—you might see: “This is interesting. It works to some extent. Let’s do more experiments.” 

From that moment on, I focus on finding a developer or a dev group that gets gaming, and is very communicative and can work with our designers. This is a pretty interesting case, because when fashion brands partnering with game designers, programmers, etc and the company already has designers. On both sides, you have a designer in the gaming company and in the fashion company. So this can make things either easier, because they’re both creative minds, or harder because they are both creative minds and they have their opinions. 

So I’d do this, this way. First, experiment—do some experimentation in other games, maybe find your niche. I think the next few years might be really a niche thing, but when it comes to fashion remember the market is growing. Last year saw 50 million new gamers—people who never gamed, never touched a console, or even a game on a mobile phone—they started playing. So the market is expanding. There is still much more to do and there’s room to grow. 

So I think, for a fashion brand, it’s really important to find their niche. And, maybe rather than putting some generic thing—or even if you work in a generic market like match 3 gaming—maybe add their own tweak to it. There are a few examples, like the Balenciaga game, which totally just blew my mind. It wasn’t a perfect game, but the fact that a brand did it. The launch date was similar to the launch date of Cyberpunk 2077. Until this day, I’m just asking myself is it a coincidence or not. I believe not, but who knows? It has this vibe and had everybody talking of it, because if you look at fashion in gaming, I don’t think there is a material release after December that has not mentioned the style. 

This was something new for fashion users, fashion aficionados. Many of them are gamers, many of them are not, and so this is breaking borders, breaking all the conventions, and experimenting. But before you experiment, you have to be absolutely sure, in my opinion, that it is worth doing it. Your brand will fit into the digital space somewhere. 

One of my favourite quotes ever: “The digital space today is vast and infinite.” It’s from Ghost in the Shell. And there are so many types of niche games, commercial games, commercial titles, and I think this year we’ll also see release of other titles, which can be played again and again for the next couple of years. 

I think people have to understand that it’s cool for a game to have 100 million players. But it’s also cool for a game to have 2 or 3 million players, if the players are playing the game constantly. You have a sole source of revenue, you have a social platform, and you have a way to promote your brand. It has to be all done with style, and it’s in good faith. Because people today, if they see something’s not of a quality, and if it’s something that’s done, because it has to be done—there are some projects that just have to be done. People will know and they will just not like it. 

I was researching fashion in gaming; loads of examples like Fortnite, Nike in Roblox, even the events that are happening in the metaverse, and I was amazed that there were literally very, very, very few negative comments about it. Of course, there’s always another place for brands to show off their work. But for example, if you’re scrolling on Facebook or on Instagram, I get totally—excuse my language—pissed off when I see commercial, commercial, commercial. And I’m really—may be not happy—but I’m not so much irritated by our product placement in games, or in movies for that matter, if they’re done in a good way, than from those Facebook click-on-me ads. 

I think advertising for gamers can be more fun and efficient than just putting some Google ads and Facebook ads, but it’s just my opinion. And they are more happy to buy Nikes! I’d be happy to buy Nikes in Fortnite, or something like. Roblox campaigns are very good. They had a nice design, and it can correspond with you, if you have your own Nikes in your house, or something like that. It was really cool.

Shamanth: Yeah. And, you know, like you said, I think a lot of the in-game brand placements, if they’re careful enough, they can make it appear very native, very non-intrusive. So I imagine that feels less jarring than just an ad, let’s just say, on Facebook.

Joanna: That was the word intrusive. Yeah, so that was the word I was looking for. It’s totally not like Facebook. Again, this is a social platform: we have ads, we have social interactions. Even the social interactions, you only have it with people you want. And on Facebook, on Twitter, sometimes other people are coming in, whereas in Fortnite, it is with other people you know, plus some other people, but not on the scale as Facebook and Twitter. Plus ads. So again, there are advertisements, but not so intrusive. That’s the word I was looking for. 

So this is pretty interesting. I’m really interested, with, for example, the rise of cloud gaming—which I’m doing research on now—how it will have an impact on democratising gaming and bringing in more games and more opportunities. The same goes for mobile gaming: how it will develop? How AAA titles will do partnerships? GTA 5 is a great example. They did this GTA Online thing. 

I read this article. GTA 5, which was released, I think, eight years ago, is still selling millions of copies. And it’s going to be selling till the end of the world, because they will release something new every month. Everybody is saying games should run in 100 FPS or 1000 FPS, whatever works at this moment. It should have these graphics that should be so real, etc. And again, GTA 5, which has graphics that aren’t Cyberpunk level graphics, but it’s still selling. 

So I strongly believe that it’s not about the graphics, not about the aesthetics of the game, but the core. And the core of gaming is fun. And the constant development. And of course, the social aspect. That’s the future. It’s no longer player versus player in the arcade, or sitting alone with your PlayStation at home and just ringing your friends on your phone that’s sitting at his or her house and playing the same game. But you cannot play it online, because there’s no online mode. 

It’s funny because when I talk with kids that are around 8, I show them for example, Super Nintendo games. They are like: “You said you couldn’t pay online?!” I think the younger generation doesn’t see the possibility of not playing online, in spite of the fact that, for example, on PlayStation, you have the trophy system.

You have the trophy system, and you can show people that you’re a good gamer and you have loads of trophies.

Shamanth: Yeah, there was a time before the internet. I certainly remember that time. I certainly remember playing, and we are certainly getting into some very interesting and exciting times.

Joanna: We have the front seats.

Shamanth: Absolutely. I’m excited to see what happens next. Joanna, this has been so wide-ranging and so eye-opening for myself, and I’m sure it will be for folks that listen in. I know we are coming up on time, so this is perhaps a good place for us to start to wrap. 

Thank you for sharing everything that you did. I speak very, very few people that have seen such a wide expanse of games and are able to speak about these games with this sort of authority that you’ve been able to speak to. So thank you for that. As we wrap, can you tell folks how they can find out more about you and everything you do?

Joanna: They could find me on Linkedin. You can type frota, and you’ll find me. Currently my main web page is dataglitch [dot] games, and I’m working as a data insights analyst at G2A [dot] com. Plus, of course, the best place on the web which is Twitter, where I go by the nick of frotograf. I’m the girl in the rabbit hat; you can find me easily.

Shamanth: Excellent, girl in the rabbit hat and very cool twitter handle: frotograf.

Joanna: I hope my stream of consciousness helps somebody, or if you’re interested just don’t hesitate to reach out to me on Linkedin or Twitter. I’ll be happy to talk about the digital assets topic because I’m really interested in it. I really again want to remind us all that we have the front seats to the changes that are currently happening. Thank you very much Shamanth.

Shamanth: Thank you, Joanna.

A REQUEST BEFORE YOU GO

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